tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post8974927627276282675..comments2023-05-06T18:18:09.792+02:00Comments on Vetenskap, fakta, och lite politik: Rossi-affären i P1 - en kommentarStephan Pomphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-18769284610499279682014-11-07T02:38:50.327+01:002014-11-07T02:38:50.327+01:00Hi. I was looking at the Elforsk newsletter and I...Hi. I was looking at the Elforsk newsletter and I found this interesting announcement via Google-translate. <br /><br />"ELFORSK PERSPEKTIV<br />DET HÄR ÄR FÖRMODLIGEN DET<br />SISTA<br />numret av<br />Elforsk Perspektiv<br />.<br />Inom kort inkarneras Elforsk till Energi-<br />forsk tillsammans med verksamheterna<br />inom Värmeforsk, Svenskt Gastekniskt<br />Center och programmet Fjärrsyn."<br /><br />Which Google says means in English: <br /><br />"THIS IS PROBABLY THE LAST number of<br />Elforsk Perspective. Shortly incarnated Elforsk to Energy<br />research together with the operations within Värmeforsk, Swedish Gas<br />Center and the remote viewing program. "<br /><br />Does this mean that the newsletter is ending? And does this mean that Elforsk is involved somehow in a "remote viewing" program? Remote viewing is completely nonsense. It is no more real than psychic power. Are they a bunch of crazy people? Why would they be involved in this? Or did Google Translate mislead me?<br /><br />Link: http://www.elforsk.se/Global/Trycksaker%20och%20broschyrer/Elforsk_perspektiv_2_2014.pdf<br /><br />Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-14345207713216553452014-06-06T00:37:51.890+02:002014-06-06T00:37:51.890+02:00Hi. Let's shake hands.Hi. Let's shake hands.<br />CimPyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08215002882356796540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-35597203839030755392014-06-05T20:06:14.079+02:002014-06-05T20:06:14.079+02:00To those who think Rossi's device works, I hav...To those who think Rossi's device works, I have some simple questions:<br /><br />1) Why not repeat the experiment on Rossi's original device which Levi claims to have performed in February 2011? That experiment used liquid flow calorimetry and the main issue in it were the flow rate of the coolant and the placement of thermocouples (too close to the heater). <br /><br />Why not repeat this but start with an inert ecat device (for example a new one with no hydrogen) and calibrate the measurement system from the large built in electrical heater and a precision power supply?<br /><br />2) Why does a highly exothermic reaction need a continuous source of electrical power to run? Why not use a heat exchanger at the output and a control system to feedback the heat to the reactor and keep it at an ideal temperature?<br /><br />3) Are Rossi's proponents aware of his history? He has two previous failed ventures which were almost certainly fraud. There was, of course, Petroldragon but there was also an affair in which Rossi and his company took millions of tax payer dollars from the Department of Defense to produce highly efficient thermoelectric devices.<br /><br />The project was funded on the strength of Rossi's alleged testing of the prototype at the University of New Hampshire. But no such test could be found. And of course, the devices provided to DOD by Rossi never worked. Not a one of them. And he did not produce them. They turned out to be rejects from a commercial company in San Diego which buys them from Russia! The supplied admitted selling the devices to Rossi when Gary Wright spoke with them by phone.<br /><br />The whole affair was so embarrassing to DOD that they removed their entire 150 page report from their web site. Fortunately a copy is preserved on the internet by Steven Krivit.<br /><br />If anyone wants more info and links to these, just ask. Rossi is a convicted felon and criminal. Why anyone would believe his wild claims to high power, desktop LENR amazes me. Note that none of this bears in any way on OTHER LENR research in general. It's just about Rossi.<br /><br />But another claimant to LENR, Defkalion, has a long history of lying about their connections to industry and the capability of their products. It looks as if they also are a scam.<br /><br />Such scams reflect poorly on the credibility of the LENR proponents who support them. <br /><br />Thanks, Stephan, for your meticulous approach to the whole issue. Please keep up the good work.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-51899782442489234452014-06-05T16:12:21.700+02:002014-06-05T16:12:21.700+02:00Okay Stephan,
Thank you for your time.Okay Stephan,<br />Thank you for your time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11444770669151014726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-17194355750048165722014-06-05T16:05:08.819+02:002014-06-05T16:05:08.819+02:00Again: it is not about reverse engineering, for us...Again: it is not about reverse engineering, for us academics it is about scientific process. <br />So there are two options: <br />a) we investigate in our manner (using a measurement protocol we want, instruments we want etc) and are free to publish and tell what we see or don't see (e.g. that test are going on or that yet another test just failed) and thus avoid the publication bias we have seen so far, or<br />b) it is a secret and therefore it is a secret and then it simply is not science and we should stay away from it. If Rossi (and his supporters!) wants scientific legitimacy than it is not ok to steer the investigations and decide what to release and what not.<br /><br />So finally, once and again and maybe for all: <br />if Rossi et al. want to show it works, please ask measurement guys like SP, PTB, ...<br />Stephan Pomphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-73535653167153835762014-06-05T16:03:36.413+02:002014-06-05T16:03:36.413+02:00Den här kommentaren har tagits bort av skribenten.Stephan Pomphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-32134066424521282952014-06-05T15:07:48.092+02:002014-06-05T15:07:48.092+02:00To me it's understandable that "publishin...To me it's understandable that "publishing whatever we wanted", could not be accepted if the information could be used for reverse engineering by other parties. Did your discuss with the group any details about what was acceptable or not to publish?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11444770669151014726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-72529892634627440302014-06-05T14:17:32.078+02:002014-06-05T14:17:32.078+02:00When: last year (autumn 2013), after the arXiv pap...When: last year (autumn 2013), after the arXiv paper and our comment. Offer was to participate but we could not publish whatever we wanted. It felt a bit like a bribe. See but keep it secret. In Swedish I would call this "munkavle".... Göran and I decided it would be much wiser to stay outside and look at the produced evidence in an independent way. Stephan Pomphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-50480560885457878292014-06-05T14:11:14.666+02:002014-06-05T14:11:14.666+02:00In what way was the secrecy demands disturbing?
J...In what way was the secrecy demands disturbing?<br /><br />Just to clarify: Did you find any reasons in the precondition of the test that the test group would not get sufficient control over the input/output already when you were approached to participate?<br /><br />About when where you approached for participation?<br /><br />Regarding test houses SP etc: They might have been approached as well, just as you were. That's why your answers are interesting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11444770669151014726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-45263360675148078732014-06-05T13:24:16.886+02:002014-06-05T13:24:16.886+02:00Secrecy. And that one would join a team instead of...Secrecy. And that one would join a team instead of doing own independent work.<br /><br />If I were to go into this I could require control over the box (input/output) and measurement methods. This does not mean I would need to open. It is not quantum mechanics. The cat can be inside and one can check if its alive or dead.<br /><br />Then again: why involve researchers. SP can do the tests (or any other lab that specialises on measurements. Only when SP (or PTB in Germany or ...) had confirmed that excess heat is produced it becomes interesting for scientist. <br /><br />Rossi is not interested in this and SP actually was at it before: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3535258.ece One of the few (ore only?) cases real outsiders came close to make tests with their own equipment. And contradicted Rossi ....Stephan Pomphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-36496083512461986722014-06-05T11:04:48.716+02:002014-06-05T11:04:48.716+02:00Interesting. Which conditions were hard to accept?...Interesting. Which conditions were hard to accept?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11444770669151014726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-82520990115718585312014-06-05T08:52:26.684+02:002014-06-05T08:52:26.684+02:00We were indeed asked but could not accept the cond...We were indeed asked but could not accept the conditions.Stephan Pomphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-39077395641586475052014-06-04T23:56:38.101+02:002014-06-04T23:56:38.101+02:00Thank you Stephan,
I agree that positive bias is a...Thank you Stephan,<br />I agree that positive bias is a problem for the group, even if Levi has left. I also understand Industrial Heat/Rossi for being cautious on who to let close to their device. The fewer the better. Let's presume you were asked by your Uppsala University colleagues, Höistad et al, to participate in a future blackbox evaluation of the ecat. Provided you got freedom to measure whatever you wanted, except any reverse engineering activities, would you consider to participate?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11444770669151014726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-10289528968199656282014-06-04T22:45:28.599+02:002014-06-04T22:45:28.599+02:00Again: you can do research on a device you do not ...Again: you can do research on a device you do not know the insides of. I have said this many times. BUT: you have to do it in a scientific manner. Please read our comment http://arxiv.org/abs/1306.6364 for detailed critique of what was reported so far. Full control over the (outside) measurement, including the power input and a discussion based on the observed facts without further unproven assumptions are mandatory.<br /><br />The secret Rossi thing will never make it into a journal since it is a secret. That is not publishable. Simple to understand why.<br />But: if LENR people do proper controlled and replicable experiments, this surely can be published.<br /><br />Concerning the third question: I am very doubtful about the current constellation. One reason being that the current group is now deply involved and has much too lose if they were to admit they made a mistake.<br /><br />If Rossi wanted external checks he can ask institutes like SP to do this. But wait, SP already did and found Rossis values were wrong .... http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3535258.eceStephan Pomphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-33940734687796633412014-06-04T15:17:00.820+02:002014-06-04T15:17:00.820+02:00Hi Stephan,
Do you think that until a publication ...Hi Stephan,<br />Do you think that until a publication in a real journal is made, there is no point in doing research within the LENR field?<br /><br />Do you think that a report from the cooperation between a commercial player and a public university stating anomalous heat while not revealing anything from "inside the box" will ever make it to a real journal?<br /><br />Do you think this kind of cooperation will ever yield any results that are reliable, since independency cannot be claimed?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11444770669151014726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-28786825435128265352014-06-04T08:49:40.109+02:002014-06-04T08:49:40.109+02:00Well, the world has been waiting and success has b...Well, the world has been waiting and success has been claimed many times. Where is the publication in a real journal? <br />I know that observations of "anormalities" have been made many times and far reaching conclusions have been drawn from single observations. <br />Well, if I run an experiment a hundred times, statistics has it that in 5 cases I find a 2 sigma deviation from the average. That is statistics and not necessarily an effect.Stephan Pomphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01421453006303433908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-71929504727444187662014-06-04T00:59:14.297+02:002014-06-04T00:59:14.297+02:00Tests conducted at NASA Glenn Research Center and ...Tests conducted at NASA Glenn Research Center and elsewhere consistently show evidence of anomalous heat during gaseous loading and unloading of deuterium into and out of bulk palladium. At one time called “cold fusion,” now called “low-energy nuclear reactions” (LENR), such effects are now published in peer-reviewed journals and are gaining attention and mainstream respectability. The instrumentation expertise of NASA GRC was applied to improve the diagnostics for investigating the anomalous heat in LENR.<br /><br />Relevant Presentation [link opens new window]:<br />+ Download presentation given at a IAPG MWG meeting, Arlington, VA, May 2012 [8.4 Mb].<br />+ Download presentation given at a LENR Workshop at NASA GRC, September 2011 [2.1 Mb].Liberty Newsposthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07006577099341739171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-25520683241300219082014-06-04T00:56:47.371+02:002014-06-04T00:56:47.371+02:00http://www.scoop.it/t/lenr-revolution-in-process-c...http://www.scoop.it/t/lenr-revolution-in-process-cold-fusionLiberty Newsposthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07006577099341739171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-632274737982741920.post-70989154085727005612014-06-02T19:57:50.190+02:002014-06-02T19:57:50.190+02:00Stop drinking your own Kool Aid and look at the fa...Stop drinking your own Kool Aid and look at the facts. LENR is well beyond RossiLiberty Newsposthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07006577099341739171noreply@blogger.com